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Pest Control Specialists Contact Us

4012 N. Main Street
Dayton, OH 45405

QUESTION:

We are bidding on a warehouse for pest control where they store glass jars that are used for food products. Is there a pesticide we can use in our back pack foggers as a space spray?

ANSWER:

This is a good question, and one that does not have an easy answer except that nearly all pesticide labels will tell us to either avoid contacting food surfaces or wash that surface after we are done with the application. If these glass jars are NOT going to be washed again prior to filling them with food products then it would seem that you need to carefully avoid any insecticide contact with them. It would seem most likely to me that there would be some washing stage just prior to food going into the jars, but you would have to determine this yourself, and if you are not certain then avoiding contact with the jars would be the best step.

Since fogging is going to put insecticide pretty much everywhere you may not be able to use this application method if the jars cannot be covered in some way prior to the application, and in a large warehouse I cannot see anyone going to this amount of trouble. This would be even more unlikely if the storage areas for the jars are the areas of concern with respect to the pests, and you need to treat in and around them. For example, I picked one product called Pyganic Pro, which is only pyrethrum with no synergists, figuring if any fogging product would have a lenient Label this one would. But, even it states that “All food processing surfaces and equipment should be covered or washed” before use, so if these jars were contacted you would need to have some way to ensure they were washed before use or you could be inviting trouble.

So, I hate to be the Gloomy Gus on this, but perhaps a space spray is not going to be your best option, and you might instead consider spot and localized treating with a hand sprayer instead. You do not indicate what pest(s) you are concerned with here, but if it is just general insect pests in this warehouse that does not actually contain food then perhaps spot treating would be more effective anyhow. This seems to cry out for a strong IPM program where you inspect to determine exactly what pests are present and where, how they are entering the warehouse so you can perform exclusion as well as exterior management to reduce their presence around the structure, the use of traps where appropriate, and that directed use of residual materials into and around the harborage sites. Perhaps the concern is with flies, in which case good exclusion and the use of UV light traps and other traps will help reduce the problem.

I know that time is money and perhaps this customer is not planning a large budget for the pest management. However, it should be recognized that the presence of any bugs in food in these jars later could be a serious economic hit to this warehouse if those bugs are traced back to this storage environment. Walking around with foggers can be fast and can knock down exposed adult insects, but generally it does not get to the heart of a pest problem, and spending the time to work on the contributing conditions that permitted these pests inside in the first place will go a long way to reducing the need for pesticide applications in the future.

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QUESTION:

I have a customer who’s seeing Scorpions inside the house. What is your recommendation for control overall, and what products would you recommend to use and where?

ANSWER:

The ability to kill any arthropod pest with insecticides relies on a couple of things. You need the bug and the active ingredient (a.i.) to be together long enough for the bug to absorb sufficient a.i. This, for example, is the reason that a crack and crevice application for cockroach control is better than treating baseboards. Since the roach spends 2/3 or more of each day resting in that crevice, it makes sense to put the insecticide in there as well. Now, rather than running quickly across a band of the a.i. and hoping it somehow is picked up by the roach, the insect is sitting on the a.i. for many hours. This also keeps the a.i. away from human exposure and reduces the chances for it to be removed by cleaning or degraded by environmental conditions.

So, back to the scorpions. These are also nocturnal creatures. They are active at night and hide all day under things that provide a darkened, enclosed harborage. I really do believe that on the first visit to a property you should take the time to evaluate that property, identify the likely harborage sites there that could support a scorpion population, and eliminate these as much as possible. Every potential hiding place you can remove permanently will make life that much harder for the scorpions. We can refer back to our triangle of needs that any living organism has, and that is food / water / harborage. The size of a population of pests is dependent on these needs, and eliminating them or reducing them also affects the bugs. You may not eradicate the scorpion problem by habitat modification alone, but in the long run it can sure help. Eliminate dead tree stumps, old logs on the soil, poorly stacked lumber, firewood piled next to the structure, piles of yard debris, etc. Coincidentally, removing all of these scorpion hot spots also reduces harborage for the insects they would prey on, so another attraction is removed.

Some kinds of scorpions – those in the genus Centruroides –  are also excellent climbers, and often use trees to access structures. Unfortunately these scorpions also are the most dangerous ones, and are referred to as Bark Scorpions because of this abiltiy to climb and access structures through openings at the roof line. So, another important step in IPM is to reduce the possible routes of entry by making sure no branches of trees or shrubs are touching the structure, and a pair of pruning shears may be a good tool in the pest management toolbox. In fact, trimming back branches a few feet from the structure will help to keep out an awful lot of other critters too, so it’s just good advice.

Making these kinds helps our goal of reducing reliance on pesticides. We must do this if we hope to continue to have the chemical products available in the future. We have a great many organizations and government agencies whose goal is to eliminate pesticides altogether, and showing our professionalism by emphasizing good IPM is what we should strive for. The use of insecticides for scorpions can be highly effective, and synthetic pyrethroids should be good choices. But, these are fast moving and hardy animals, and they could have more of a built-in resistance to a lot of products. We will be most successful if we can put the a.i. directly into the places the scorpions will spend the most time. It seems to me that granular products scattered over the ground would be less likely to give us this contact time. An application of the Talstar G around the perimeter of the structure could be very helpful, as this at least would provide some protection of the structure from scorpions crawling along that area looking for an entry point, but I think it would be better for much of the property to use a liquid application and direct the treatment as much as possible into harborages.

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QUESTION:

When attic temperatures routinely reach over 125 degrees in summer here in Florida, wouldn’t that control many pests such as silverfish, or is it not hot enough?

ANSWER:

I believe that a sustained temperature of 125 degrees would kill just about ANY insect adult, and we know from tests done on bed bugs that even 115 degrees is sufficient to kill all stages of these bugs. But, as bed bugs will do when the temperature starts to rise and become uncomfortable for them, bugs will quickly move to new locations to seek a cooler place to live. This might be an interesting experiment to do – with thermometers check the temperature in various places in an attic, such as on top of the insulation, at the roof level, under the insulation against the sheetrock of the ceiling below, on top of or within light fixtures in the ceilings below, etc. I suspect you would find that the temperature under the insulation would be considerably cooler than above it, due to the cooler air in the living areas below keeping the ceilings cooler, and thus the air space under that insulation cooler as well.

This may just keep it liveable long enough to allow insects to survive until night time temperatures cool it all back down again. They also commonly migrate into wall voids, which often are open at the top and into the attic, so a fast moving insect like a silverfish would have no problem moving rapidly to better places.

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QUESTION:

In a Florida summer cool weather is rare, and typically automobiles get very hot inside. I have noticed that some products have a label that says to store in a cool dry place. I have heard of people installing some sort of a/c unit in a vehicle bed (enclosed truck bed w/ topper), but this seems quite pricy. The distributor warehouse I have bought chemicals from is not an especially cool place (actually sometimes hot/muggy) and I am curious as to what they expect a technician to do with the chemical regarding storing it legally, despite outdoor heat & mugginess. What would you recommend to do it? I think some sort of cooler has served in preventing temperatures from reaching an extreme. Do you think that is sufficient from keeping the compartment from being TOO hot? (most product labels do not bear a specific degree value, but a general statement)

ANSWER:

This is one that kind of bothers me too, as so many product Labels will say only to store in a “cool, dry place” or to “avoid excessive heat”, but without specifying any temperature limits. However, I looked at a few Labels and then some MSDS’s, and the MSDS may offer more information than the Label on proper storage. For example, the Termidor SC label states to “protect from temperatures above 40 C” (I still don’t know why they are trying to shove the metric system down our throats), and this converts to only 104 degrees Fahrenheit, which certainly will be reached in vehicles during the summer. The MSDS further says that this storage in high temperatures should not be for “extended periods of time”, so we’re back to a vague precaution (extended? hours? weeks? months?).

Personally I would believe that an extended period of time would refer at the least to several weeks, and perhaps months would be likely, so carrying a small amount of the product in your vehicle and using that product over the next few days should not be a major concern with degradation of the active ingredient. You can help this out by carrying only smallish quantities that you know will be sufficient for that day’s work, and this probably is good advice anyhow not to use your vehicle as your major storage area. Given that an accident and a spill are possible it would be best to have the minimum amount of toxic material on board if that occurs.

I haven’t heard myself of people installing A/C units in their storage lockers on a vehicle, but certainly some technicians will carry a small cooler box to store materials like paraffin bait blocks or gel baits. These could be simply a cheap styrofoam ice chest that you keep ice packs in for the day, perhaps clearly marking that chest as one used for “pesticide storage”, and ensuring that those ice packs are not contaminating anything else in your home freezer each night. You should consult with your local regulatory inspectors to be certain this is okay with them, and even to see what other thoughts they might have on this problem. Sometimes leniency with the rules is given to accommodate odd weather conditions in an area, such as harsh freezing temps in the upper Midwest in the winter that could cause pumps and pipes to burst. But the use of a small cooler with ice in it and the carrying of small quantities of your products, particularly liquids and aerosols, should be acceptable and should keep the storage space temperature well below one of concern.

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QUESTION:

I used a Pyrocide product the other day and it caused a rash-like irritation on the underside of my arms. It doesn’t itch, but about an hour after the treatment it began to burn. I have researched the subject and it seems to be “skin parathesia” to me. Since it was a fog treatment I wore a long sleeve shirt, safety glasses, and a half face respirator. My main question is can you suggest a more “technician friendly” treatment? I was told about a treatment called piperonyl butoxide, but it’s listed as an active in pyrocide.

ANSWER:

Normally skin parasthesia has been associated with the synthetic pyrethroids, and in particular some of the earlier active ingredients such as cypermethrin and cyfluthrin, not as much with the later actives such as deltamethrin and bifenthrin. However, sensitive people could react to any of them, experiencing what you have described – a mild rash with a burning sensation. This is otherwise harmless and should go away within a day, but if you are one of those sensitive to it you could expect it anytime your skin is exposed to these materials. When this first began to occur with pest control technicians we were advised by some manufacturer reps that it was pretty much unavoidable, and that no amount of protective clothing would completely eliminate skin contact at some level. We were told by other manufacturer reps that some kinds of skin creams could alleviate the problem, and one of them even handed out sample creams for a period of time. I can’t tell you at this point who was correct there.

Natural pyrethrum is the active in Pyrocides, along with one or both of the common synergists – PBO (piperonyl butoxide) or MGK 264. While these are added to enhance the effect of the pyrethrum they are considered “active ingredients” as well, rather than inerts. To be honest, I have never heard of anyone experiencing skin parasthesia from natural pyrethrum, but I suppose it should be expected since both natural pyrethrum and synthetic pyrethroids have a similar effect on the nervous system. They are both GABA-gated Sodium Channel Blockers that bind to a protein in the “voltage gated sodium channel” along the nerve axon. That’s a mouthful, but I thought it might be of interest, and the take away message is that pyrethrum acts on the nervous system in the same way pyrethroids do, so your particular system could well be reacting in this manner.

With the influx of new plant-based active ingredients – all those plant oils in use now – we have had to be more concerned with plant allergies, as some people could well be allergic to some of these chemicals just as there are “peanut allergies”. Perhaps your immune system is tuned into the pyrethrum molecule more so than the pyrethroids, if you have never experienced this reaction when using all those other products. Since nearly all of the products we can use for space spraying contain natural pyrethrum it is hard to suggest any good alternatives. What you may try would be a product that does NOT have the PBO, just in case it is the synergists that are affecting you, so a product like Pyganic Pro, which is only pyrethrum, might be worth trying. That at least could narrow the search for the cause.

Otherwise I suggest you find ways to limit the times you use space spray treatments, since many of our pest problems are not candidates for fogging (roaches, bed bugs, etc.) or leave the area while the fogger is working for treatments such as attics. Foggers could even be used with a timer that allows you to calculate the length of time the fogger needs to be on to emit the proper amount of material for the space you are treating, and then retrieve the fogger once it is done. This would limit your exposure to the materials. There also is Exponent Synergist which is PBO only, and if it turns out it is only the pyrethrum that affects you then this might be an alternative. Exponent has a MUCH more limited Label for where it can be used, so it will not be a perfect alternative.

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QUESTION:

My local courthouse has a heavy infestation of roaches in the ceiling. The building is 10,000 square feet and has a drop ceiling with the wiring and plumbing in the ceiling. There is access to the ceiling but not enough room to walk in. The spraying of the ground floors are not doing the trick. Should I try fogging the ceiling? Any suggestions?

ANSWER:

It would seem to me that these roaches must be leaving that drop ceiling to find food, as there really wouldn’t (shouldn’t ?) be anything up there that is very tasty or nutritious for them. I’m assuming these must be German roaches, but if they are not then you should make the positive ID so that any oddities in their life style could be figured out. Even German roaches would much rather live closer to moisture sources, and a drop ceiling would be an odd place for them if they don’t seem to be anywhere else. Perhaps these are Brown Banded roaches?

A drop ceiling would not be considered to be a good “void” with respect to treating with dusts. Even if you used an inorganic dust like diatomaceous earth or silica gel I’d be concerned that dust could begin to sift down into the court room itself. However, if the dust could be applied as lightly as is suggested, meaning such a light layer that you can barely see it on the surface afterward, this might still be one option. Another could be the use of bait products, and again you’d prefer something that would not fall out if any of the ceiling panels is removed and tilted. Baits could be used within stations or gel baits might be placed.

But, I hate to suggest that all you do is treat the drop ceiling area, as this means that somehow the root of the problem is not being addressed. It should be determined just where these roaches are coming from, and this could lead you to a source that could then be treated effectively as well as putting a stop to any new entry of the roaches. If all you do is to treat then you may end up having to do it indefinitely, and this is not what you want. If these are larger roaches like American roaches then they could be entering from the exterior, and treating the exterior and doing exclusion could be helpful. If they are Germans then they must be going to other places to find food, and you can work to control them at those places. Germans need moisture, so is there a moisture source for them up in the ceiling area?

Fogging would kill a bunch of roaches, but fogging normally is relegated to pyrethrum products, and these leave no residual effect. You kill what bugs are exposed at that time and those in hiding are not affected, continuing the problem. Perhaps place insect glue traps in various locations in the ceiling to see if you can narrow down where they may be concentrated, and focus on that location more. A courthouse should not have any good food resources available for roaches unless there also is a kitchen, and if there is a kitchen I sure would expect the roaches to be more common there than in that dry drop ceiling.

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QUESTION:

Presently fogging is being done for mosquitoes and flies, but this doesn’t seem to be that effective. What else can we do to eliminate this problem? What is the difference between a Mist Blower and a Fogger, and how effective are they? Is it safe to fog for mosquitoes at a hotel when it is occupied with guests?

ANSWER:

It is probably only a matter of semantics when you hear of a mist blower versus a fogger, but nearly all mechanical “foggers” emit droplets in the ULV range of 5-20 microns, meaning a very tiny droplet that stays airborne for awhile and drifts well with any wind. A “mist” blower may refer to a fogger that emits larger droplets, which is normally the basis for referring to it as a mist rather than a ULV fog. Again, this may just be how a product is named, but the larger droplets of a mist will settle to the ground or other surfaces more quickly and thus not be carried as far by any breeze. Generally speaking, when you are hoping to achieve a kill of adult mosquitoes the ability for the droplets to drift awhile to contact more air space and more surfaces is an advantage. It simply covers more area and stays in the air longer to give the potential to contact more flying insects.

Mists and fogs are effective at knocking down adult mosquitoes that are present at that moment, but no residual effect is left behind. The pyrethrum used in foggers is essentially contact only, no residual, and while it does give definite relief from biting mosquitoes it will not prevent new adult mosquitoes from re-entering the area shortly after. However, it does give that reduction of the biting adult insects, so it has some benefit. Combine this with barrier treatments where you spray foliage and other surfaces where the adult mosquitoes will spend time resting and you get a much longer effect in reduction of the insects.

Is it “safe” to fog while guests are present? Well, this is a really good question, and my answer would be that you should take every step necessary to fog ONLY when no one is present who will be contacted by the fog. Even though pyrethrum is a natural material and has no no residual and has a relatively low toxicity, it still is a TOXIC material, and to many people this means it would be an unacceptable thing to be exposed to. There are people who either are sensitive to pyrethrum or believe they are, and if they were walking outside when a cloud of pesticide passed by them all sorts of bad things could occur. Pyrethrum also has a very noticeable odor, and even this could result in complaints from guests that they were feeling ill, so I suggest that the applications be done only when guests are not outside in the area of the treatment. You also need to be aware of wind direction and speed to ensure the fog goes where you want it to go.

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QUESTION:

When treating for German roaches inside a home or apartment is there a product that provides a contact kill other then an aerosol, and have you found that gel baits are the best form of treatment?

ANSWER:

The word “contact” kill could represent two things. It could mean that the product is destined to kill an insect only at that moment of contact when you are applying it, and this generally refers to the use of pyrethrum. This active ingredient and many of the other natural plant based insecticides really offer no residual, so they can be applied in the hope that you directly treat the insect and kill it at that time. However, “contact” also could refer to the ability of an active ingredient that does have a residual to be on a surface when some insect wanders on to it, and the active ingredient is able to be absorbed into the insect by this contact. It does not have to be ingested as baits do, but simply moves through the cuticle of the exoskeleton and into the nervous system of that pest insect. All of the pyrethroids and the many other new families of insecticide chemistry are residual materials that operate in this manner.

Aerosols that contain these residual active ingredients are excellent for German cockroach control, since applying the material directly into the hiding places is the best way to get the longest contact time between the roach and the active ingredient. Treating along a baseboard or some other exposed surface in the hopes that the roach will come out of hiding and stand on that treated surface later is pretty optimistic. Treating exposed surfaces also increases the chances that people or pets will also contact the insecticide, or that food contamination could occur. Putting the material directly into the cracks, crevices, and voids where the roaches hide protects the active ingredient from being removed by washing, protects it from UV light, removes it from human or food exposure, and again, increases the contact time by the pest.

Where you hope for true and legal crack-and-crevice treatments you want to have none of the spray material dribbling or running out of that crevice, and water-base sprays are hard to contain in this manner. The water just too easily flows back out or splashes back from a shallow crevice, and the water takes too long to evaporate. Where a product Label MANDATES “crack and crevice only” applications this would be an illegal application properly called “spot treating” if it runs out onto exposed surfaces. Aerosols use solvents and diluents that evaporate rapidly, and are easier to retain in the crevices. So, many of the active ingredients in aerosols do give that contact kill, either on contact at the moment of the application or later when the roach rests on the treated surface.

Baits are excellent for German roaches, and gel baits still prove to be good choices. These should be incorporated into the overall treatment program. But, German roaches prefer to feed in seclusion if possible, so gel baits should never be applied out in the open on counters or other surfaces. They should be placed as “pea-sized” spots directly into crevices or gaps or small voids, taking advantage of the roach’s preferencees. But, granular and dust baits also work when you can apply them into voids or use them in stations, and offering a variety of baits in a variety of formulations increases the odds that the roaches will accept some bait.

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QUESTION:

Recently a customer asked me how to get rid of toads in his house. The rear enclosed patio is 4 feet below ground level and, according to him, has a drain on the floor. There are no leaks in the wall that expose the soil, but some mornings he will find toads on the concrete floor. What would be your reasoning behind the toad invasions?

ANSWER:

I am confident that we still have no toxins labeled for toads, and personally I don’t think this ever should be the route we take in management of these valuable animals. Of course, cane toads are wreaking havoc with ecosystems in other parts of the world as well as in Florida, and Cuban Tree Frogs are causing environmental problems in Florida as well, as these introduced species are highly predatory and disrupt natural systems. These kinds should be controlled, and killing them may need to be done to preserve other native species. But throughout nearly all of the rest of the U.S. toads are harmless to people and highly beneficial in the landscape. Of course, the dog that gets one in its mouth is going to have a major slobbering session afterward due to the repellent fluids the toads can give off. Sometimes their numbers can get so high when a yard is near a breeding pond that the toads can become a nuisance, but in general they should be preserved.

You indicate this patio is enclosed, but since the toads are finding their way into it there must be some opening for them. Toads are not great climbers, so I wouldn’t think they were climbing walls and coming down from above, so the access ought to be somewhere at ground level. A very careful search along the outside perimeter of the patio, concentrating near ground level, should reveal any openings that exist, and these can then be permanently closed with an appropriate barrier material.

Toads are aquatic in their early stage, which is the “pollywog” stage where the young have tails and swim. So, look around too for where some possible sources are, and you may be able to use netting to form a barrier that prevents more toads from coming onto this property from that water environment. Toads are nocturnal and they do seek moist hiding places, so evaluate the property to see where you can eliminate harborages, such as lumber or firewood piled on the soil, yard debris on the soil, or anything else making soil contact that creates that moist, shaded micro-habitat. Eliminating as much of this as possible will reduce the toads on the property.

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QUESTION:

A question concerning the legal aspect of “tank contamination”. When a chemical is used that states long sleeves should be worn during the mixing and application, and then that mixture is used but a tiny amount remains in the 1 gallon tank, does that amount equal something called an “incidental amount”? I have not heard a solid answer or line concerning such a concept. It seems to me that after a mixture is diluted with water that the amount of toxicant would be virtually incapable in itself to do noticable harm to a person or animal. Perhaps I am right in a practical sense, and not in a technical sense.
For example, if a synergist like Exponent was diluted with water and used and the tank had a LITTLE left in the bottom, and then Bifenthrin was added at a Labeled rate, would the label legally need to be followed for Exponent still?
I believe I have read that in a larger tank a certain amount of ‘residue’ or ‘trace amounts’ is acceptable.

ANSWER:

Interesting question Chris, and I will say first that I have never heard of anyone in a regulatory position considering the slight residue of a previous product to still be in a tank such that it required you to continue following the label for that previous product. This is, of course, if the tank mixture from the first material is properly used so that the tank is virtually “empty” when you add more water and a second, different pesticide. The reality is that with the sensitive testing capabilities available today a lab could probably detect Product A in that tank even when you have moved onto Product Z (meaning many tankfuls later). Unless you emptied every drop from the tank and thoroughly washed every square inch, including all the plumbing, there will still be miniscule trace amounts somewhere in that tank. But, these would be so slight they would have no consequence on what you do with the next tank of mixed material.

Now, whenever someone asks about “legal” aspects I look for the nearest hiding place, so what is always the best idea is to check with YOUR local regulatory inspectors to get their opinion. They would be the ones who will interpret these things in your geographic area. But, let’s explore more of your question, and first is the subject of whether or not a trace amount of a pesticide could possibly harm people, animals, or the environment. The reality may be that the potential for harm from residues left in the tank would be so low as to be unworthy of worrying about, but the second reality is that there are plenty of people who don’t agree. Someone could be overly sensitive to a substance, even at an extremely low level. There also could be living organisms in certain environments or habitats that are susceptible to certain chemicals, even down at the parts per trillion level, and it actually is these kinds of organisms used as examples of how trace amounts of pesticides could “harm” the environment. Regardless of the level present all pesticides are still considered toxic.

My second thought is with respect to PPE – personal protective equipment. In pest management by professionals using pesticides the rule of thumb is ALWAYS going to be that you wear long sleeve shirt and long pants unless the Label specifies otherwise. And, if we look at the example you offer for Exponent Insecticide Synergist the Label states that “mixers, loaders, applicators, and other handlers must wear long sleeved shirt and long pants”, and it is that word “handlers” that is the key. I am speaking from my knowledge of regulations on this in California, but I’ll just betcha that most other states interpret it the same, and that is that anyone potentially exposed to pesticides in their job duties is “handling” pesticides. This could include the shop mechanic whose only job is to repair spray equipment. He never sprays or mixes a drop of pesticide, but by virtue of working on equipment that has pesticide residues on it he is legally handling those pesticides, and is subject to all the same requirements of PPE and training.

Where this could differ, I suppose, would be if you switched from one product to another and the second product’s Label had wildly different PPE requirements. But, you should always follow the label guidelines for the material that is going to be mixed in the tank for the next use, within reason of course. If your tank were still half full from the first application and you added more water and a full complimentof Product B, then I think there still would be enough of Product A remaining to be considered an amount worthy of regulating according to its label.

How do I summarize all this? Properly emptied the tank is considered to be “empty”, and trace residues would not be an issue for the next tankful of a different material. The PPE you wear is dependent upon the new product in that tank and the Label requirements for it. And, regardless of the concentration, any pesticide should be considered “toxic” and to have the potential to harm someone or something.

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